Delivery-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:52:51 -0500
Return-Path: <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on moria.seul.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,
	RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Original-To: archiver@seul.org
Delivered-To: archiver@seul.org
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (eugeni.torproject.org [38.229.72.13])
	(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by khazad-dum.seul.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 594321E0EC3;
	Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:52:48 -0500 (EST)
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3E4726438;
	Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:52:43 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F10BF25860
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:52:40 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at 
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (eugeni.torproject.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id Xt7HtSGA1UVG for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>;
 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:52:40 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from ccs.nrl.navy.mil (mx0.ccs.nrl.navy.mil [132.250.118.211])
 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
 (Client did not present a certificate)
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5AA6251A5
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:52:40 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from vpn212046.nrl.navy.mil (vpn212046.nrl.navy.mil [132.250.212.46])
 by ccs.nrl.navy.mil (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sADDqaUd001134
 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT)
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:52:37 -0500
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:52:38 -0500
From: Paul Syverson <paul.syverson@nrl.navy.mil>
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
Message-ID: <20141113135238.GA7688@vpn212046.nrl.navy.mil>
References: <CADop2NEi2jiaPcRTFLGzsasncSYJ8+yzANV1ZX-UFe1nqv3QLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20141113015303.GA44443@moria.seul.org>
 <512753.55494436343036332d31343036383939313433@popretr.messagingengine.com>
 <CADop2NF-P++a=n7FEaniq3Wrr=OXrp1j7mBX10306+oiEYA19Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1415856559.3215529.190419229.7967CA45@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <20141113053202.GK23933@mail2.eff.org>
 <CADop2NE9_+zGdHOiQQ8_nD6WVWLzfYtAmb-KmQ0iM91D-6PTiA@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CADop2NE9_+zGdHOiQQ8_nD6WVWLzfYtAmb-KmQ0iM91D-6PTiA@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12)
X-CCS-MailScanner: No viruses found.
X-CCS-MailScanner-Info: See: http://www.nrl.navy.mil/ccs/support/email
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] "Hidden Services" vs "Onion services"
X-BeenThere: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
List-Id: "all discussion about theory, design,
 and development of Onion Routing" <tor-talk.lists.torproject.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/>
List-Post: <mailto:tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Errors-To: tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org
Sender: "tor-talk" <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>

This is also nice because it further emphasizes the distinction
between the thing that the user is setting up and the network that
is providing secure/hidden/private/location-protected/whatever access to it.
'Onion service' to me doesn't as cleanly conceptually separate the
service that is protected behind the onion network and the service of
protection for it that the network provides.

There are things besides onion websites (e.g. onionshare or private access
for system administration) that it seems are more reasonably connoted
by 'service' than 'site', but no convenient-enough-to-be-useful term
is going to be the 100% best choice in all respects. 'Onion site'
sounds like a winner to me. (But who would have expected it, clearly a
dark horse, perhaps even a dark web horseman of the infocalypse...
Oh dear.)

aloha,
Paul

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 09:48:09PM -0800, Virgil Griffith wrote:
> Onion sites sounds nice to me too.  But we might have to change the
> name to from tor2web to onion2web.
> 
> -V
> 
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Seth David Schoen <schoen@eff.org> wrote:
> > Nathan Freitas writes:
> >
> >> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014, at 11:38 PM, Virgil Griffith wrote:
> >> > I'll start trying "onion service" and just see if it catches on.
> >>
> >> Since these things are mostly used for websites, why not call them
> >> "onion sites" or "onionsites"?
> >>
> >> Typical users don't talk about web services, they talk about web sites
> >> or pages. Perhaps they say "online service" but that usually means an
> >> ISP or something larger than just a site, imo.
> >>
> >> "Turn your website into an onionsite"
> >> "Access the onionsite in the same way you access a website"
> >
> > It could be technically consistent to say both "hidden services" and
> > "onion sites" -- you could say that onion sites are web sites that are
> > served as hidden services.
> >
> > --
> > Seth Schoen  <schoen@eff.org>
> > Senior Staff Technologist                       https://www.eff.org/
> > Electronic Frontier Foundation                  https://www.eff.org/join
> > 815 Eddy Street, San Francisco, CA  94109       +1 415 436 9333 x107
> > --
> > tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
> > To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
> > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
> -- 
> tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
> To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
-- 
tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk

