Delivery-Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 23:37:30 -0400
Return-Path: <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on moria.seul.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,
	DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,T_DKIM_INVALID,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=no
	version=3.3.1
X-Original-To: archiver@seul.org
Delivered-To: archiver@seul.org
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (eugeni.torproject.org [138.201.14.202])
	(using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by khazad-dum.seul.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 697921E0CD9;
	Thu, 19 May 2016 23:37:28 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C66AE038D;
	Fri, 20 May 2016 03:37:25 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1F08E0376
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Fri, 20 May 2016 03:37:21 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at 
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (eugeni.torproject.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id g0__1kzFEu4m for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>;
 Fri, 20 May 2016 03:37:21 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-oi0-x236.google.com (mail-oi0-x236.google.com
 [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::236])
 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits))
 (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com",
 Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (not verified))
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73AF8E0375
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Fri, 20 May 2016 03:37:21 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-oi0-x236.google.com with SMTP id v145so160441656oie.0
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Thu, 19 May 2016 20:37:21 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
 h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to;
 bh=vPfd0Y7h2Q6rC899EZBPB1MF/cYQkb8C+6PBHQvGEBg=;
 b=tOdJJzFkxjGsKVhsnmfrAgql3C9VDmrbsVBmSYp9/LtsfzUmLGqHHM/+B3M2tlXAM6
 p1hJgy91Xi//q+yoqS6B+6PNrbJqxlBHnYqAkBaE7zJLWZJjmn0fTbyxUhxLdau9rods
 rhwGrQLWr2y9GdsPXoer0ifxAuEpfX1PmlEKICBcn50GPyOvPsCLCX5XTxvhrnUI7n+R
 YaXDLlGUJslLRw+nykHH0Wkm26AjFhI2otdGcwxSdm8+gXui33Rq3W8l5R/3eCTnSGuj
 MQ8iMq0fmZxvdwmYaa/iIy/NKh19zvH7+Le0gebpRd9w2ZEtM8IiHvOr7AvYZI/DTlrO
 t5Wg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20130820;
 h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
 :message-id:subject:from:to;
 bh=vPfd0Y7h2Q6rC899EZBPB1MF/cYQkb8C+6PBHQvGEBg=;
 b=jJ1bT2yKYV+JgjcA1+lpE25HZwfI+fL3GwwzEAZQP4+5VJCt39GHY9OXQPzZ7tc69g
 8S5ClQD08yZNmcfO+fBLuHjumB10kXAAUmrKM5ZDHHeAoQLeP1qC2e9CbULP7gXzBvRV
 WVrGp5ypKdxYQN4OrZ9l2ro4o2jfxQrCVvohDMq6deMNdNV7pfr2H6kfLpKrFdQlHYaL
 Z7yf1lZtFvviNNLw7aDoTqC5HMDs8KIO76J4iYsm4cCUGPMK6g4anNVfFS8+CUdDQjKg
 /aIS/bzCIGVqiAr8PLBHnzDJvKxl+3KAiqhn3Wk5ZxIsGlpiWwaFeQ9IZcNKdenmU+OG
 Zeuw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FWtHr2GXkCOb8wugnteaRwDBoXkgbVF6CpynOj6uwH9mWMga3H4O457YvqHgqJflbMMFBUA2qcayPiQXg==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.202.206.141 with SMTP id e135mr443646oig.173.1463715438338; 
 Thu, 19 May 2016 20:37:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.157.52.196 with HTTP; Thu, 19 May 2016 20:37:18 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAGf7i0rnWW8a--khDE9ZBhqNy90XhHqaYOA85y1mn_Mhx6CzjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F4A8F992-2FBE-4B7D-A20D-C5D00F87C8C5@nrl.navy.mil>
 <56FCAC2F.5030101@cyblings.on.ca> <5734CD97.6040904@cyblings.on.ca>
 <6dca9ad1-53be-7df7-fde8-43105280a920@gmx.com>
 <573D1685.1020602@cyblings.on.ca>
 <CAOsGNSTh8pCEODxDj+YRScJYWfrvUqvFBRP+LvePxOQbJndqDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a23212e4-ddfa-cd08-78fc-955584b683fc@gmx.com>
 <CAMYxE2sbPeD+1VVKGU4MR=Qxnf1W0tQkWbyNLyVYm4+VUXdtFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGf7i0rnWW8a--khDE9ZBhqNy90XhHqaYOA85y1mn_Mhx6CzjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 22:37:18 -0500
Message-ID: <CAMYxE2s7ZGqJ_Jbbw+0St-C34=W2cBrV=xTB8s1JhH0LUrTdjQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Rick Evans <tmovoice@gmail.com>
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.15
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] fwd: FBI Is Pushing Back Against Judge's Order to
 Reveal Tor Browser Exploit
X-BeenThere: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
List-Id: "all discussion about theory, design,
 and development of Onion Routing" <tor-talk.lists.torproject.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/>
List-Post: <mailto:tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Errors-To: tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org
Sender: "tor-talk" <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>

What if the majority of the relays or even a large fraction are not playing
by those rules?  Why not 4 or 5 hops?  Will too much traffic will over
burden the network and slow it down?

On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Blake Hadley <moosehadley@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 8:26 PM, Rick Evans <tmovoice@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Tor was broken in beta long before it mainstream.  What would you day if
> I
> > said there was a list of every tor user and relay and that list was
> started
> > when there were as few as 800 users???  Saw the list way back when.  the
> > government is willing to spend 7.55 billion to get into our shorts at the
> > airport.
> > What makes you think they wouldn't spend a couple million to make a bunch
> > of tor relays that don't  play by the rules and swamp the system with a
> > bunch of Tor Spybot relays?  Who needs vulnerabilities.
> >
>
>
> This is all well known.
> The relay list isn't a secret at all, in fact you can view it here:
> https://globe.torproject.org/
>
> And sure, if you have a list of relays and you have a backdoor into the
> ISPs, of course you can get a list of everyone who's ever connected to
> them.
>
> That's why we take important steps to insurance privacy like using three
> hops, and making identifying browser information look the same for every
> user.
> --
> tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
> To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
>
-- 
tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk

