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Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Use of TOR for illegal activities
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Hi

> On 20 May 2015, at 05:10, Paul A. Crable <paul@crable.us> wrote:
>=20
> I have just finished Macdonald's "Future Crime", a recent book listing =
the
> ways in which we are all abused and insulted, and will be further =
abused
> and insulted, by unsavory persons and organizations through our
> technology, particularly through the Internet.  It makes sobering =
reading.
>=20
> TOR is mentioned frequently, but the references are primary to its use =
by
> criminals to carry out illegal activity, such as the Silk Road =
incident.
>=20
> This ties in somewhat to a recent posting on this list claiming that =
2/3's
> of the activity on TOR is involved in pornography.
>=20
> I suppose I sound like a disapproving fussbudget, but I have trouble
> understanding how and why we allow TOR to be used this way.  I'm all =
for
> free speech, but it's still illegal to falsely yell "Fire!" in a =
crowded
> theater.

First, a society with NO CRIME would be a terrible idea. Since this =
would require 1984 to be fully implemented, and such a dystopian society =
would consist of slaves.

So some crime is to be accepted in a modern society - especially =
victimless crimes like marijuana use should be revisited and laws should =
be changed ASAP.
- one europol chief once said about 3% of a population are potential =
criminals

and what is crime?

You mention pornography, and in my country Denmark it is legal - and so =
is free speech
in other countries around the world we see lots of problems even with =
blogging - which quickly lands you in jail or punished harshly. One =
recent example is Raif Badawi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raif_Badawi

So to agree on a defintion of Tor use which is "approved" is ridiculous =
to even start discussing.

So me being an exit-node operator I trust that the benefits from =
allowing Tor helps the world overall, with censorship free access to =
communication
and the bad parts I trust will be less - often because the crimes =
committed have traces into the real physical world.
Some examples were already listed by others, and child abuse should be =
stopped before it happens - not AFTER the fact with pictures flowing =
through the internet.


So yes, we should DEFINITELY combat crime like child abuse - and please =
call it what it is!
- but disabling, blocking, censoring, changing Tor would probably NOT =
help, since you would at the same time have to break things like =
ordinary VPN.


>=20
> Is there some way to keep TOR out of the hands of sleazebags and =
crooks?
what sleaze bags are we talking about now?

without getting to much into politics we see bankers killing the world =
for profit, and the results are fracking, hunger, ...
and we see politicians and FBI heads talking about surveillance of =
ordinary people - that have done nothing wrong.

To me it is clear that allowing at least Tor traffic through my networks =
I am enabling a more fair discussion, and allows good things to happen.

It still makes me sad though that bad things happen, and some of those =
are using the Tor network and my server.




Mvh/Best regards

Henrik
--
Henrik Lund Kramsh=C3=B8j, Follower of the Great Way of Unix
internet samurai cand.scient CISSP
hlk@kramse.org hlk@solidonetworks.com +45 2026 6000
http://solidonetworks.com/ Network Security is a business enabler


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