Delivery-Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 16:34:20 -0400
Return-Path: <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on moria.seul.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,
	DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,T_DKIM_INVALID,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD,
	URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Original-To: archiver@seul.org
Delivered-To: archiver@seul.org
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (eugeni.torproject.org [38.229.72.13])
	(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by khazad-dum.seul.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B5D51E0CB7
	for <archiver@seul.org>; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 16:34:18 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3B1F3437F;
	Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:34:12 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5776E342C1
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:34:09 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at 
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (eugeni.torproject.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id wolOR4QDmTtG for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>;
 Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:34:09 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-ig0-x22e.google.com (mail-ig0-x22e.google.com
 [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22e])
 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits))
 (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com",
 Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (not verified))
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3537132ED6
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:34:09 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by igcqo1 with SMTP id qo1so54117366igc.0
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:34:07 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
 h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
 :content-type; bh=G2qGCh1cmLmOhVEpmk7i+wtZ/eIEC9n1I32cchpQ6wo=;
 b=ZssPudNkW+AAJPyOZ9HXecXMRhYouLkOg4dh20O9uC6EeUl2inqT7SsOxQhUQyZDdv
 +tgIHtzxlWaOF0k6SbRmGqYJnmVdKsvfmlOs3Hjgqi+juV9BaNRrt44+Lzb+LYaakcHi
 VwlBmjVRxxt+O/PGMm72v++yFP/jTGUBw0NQW0Rev09Kwvj2D/huz1rnkDgUptAAAjWn
 /wU/EQDebhwl3Fo8jLf+G6n+RW8yDPKlLxs/GxTjqF//NfVPiqikFRCt1G2TIwynscCm
 vBSPOLZWcv9PZVhleYdjs2ETYy2JFarIiZTFrG+6XFxQuljDLKzBfrsZ0pUxzxWuA52x
 Z92g==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.107.156.19 with SMTP id f19mr114236138ioe.45.1426538046883; 
 Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:34:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.36.104.78 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:34:06 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <b6cb75245c0c0ec46b713575b96647e1@openmailbox.org>
References: <b6cb75245c0c0ec46b713575b96647e1@openmailbox.org>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 16:34:06 -0400
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_j1gDFo36NLtxHru8cbDFF_GTucRhnXL5_Jtt0u0FVmg@mail.gmail.com>
From: grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com>
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Are webmail providers biased against Tor?
X-BeenThere: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
List-Id: "all discussion about theory, design,
 and development of Onion Routing" <tor-talk.lists.torproject.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/>
List-Post: <mailto:tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Errors-To: tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org
Sender: "tor-talk" <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>

There have been a number of threads on the email / phone issues,
as in another post, one of them is here...
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2012-October/025923.html


If anyone is able to create a new account with Gmail, Yahoo, or
Outlook via Tor without giving a phone number... please log
the exit fingerprint and post here or let me know.
The answer on this for years seems to have been no, or
ambiguously stated, or unverifiable through subsequent testing.

The same thing goes for creation via clearnet without phone.
Supposedly Gmail allows this. Status of Yahoo and Outlook
seem not to have been mentioned or tested lately.

Though irrelavent to potential new users today, Gmail was generally
known to grandfather *old* accounts in regards to both Tor and phone.
Yahoo and Outlook seem unknown there.

The only reason to have any interest in the "big three", is that they
provide a suite of useful free services via one account. That's a valid
use case. Therefore properly testing the Tor/Phone combinations
and publicly pushing them on the issue is important.


The question was "Are [web]mail providers biased against [Tor]?"

AFAIK, those three have not gone on written record explicitly for or
against Tor. You'd need to do more testing above to determine the
situation. They obviously have IP=user blocking / phone issues in
their head whether or not Tor is involved.


There are over 6500 relays and over 1000 exits within tor community.
There's no reason some of those same relay operators, and you, could
not, instead of deploying a new relay, deploy a new Tor and Phone
friendly, even onion accessible, email service. It is clearly a needed
complementary service to Tor. And the more legit people that use such
third tier services, the more you force first and second tier (work / ISP /
school) to accept the principle.
Also, webmail sucks, eats bandwidth and CPU, and is a security
and maintenance risk. No reason you cannot offer only IMAP and
SUBMISSION with your shiny new service. Anyone who can
figure out Tor can certainly configure their mail client.
-- 
tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk

