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Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Illegal Activity As A Metric of Tor Security and
 Anonymity
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I understand everyone's feelings here and tempers can run hot.  Firstly, no=
t everyone in the US government supports the current behaviour, its a minor=
ity in senior positions.  The rest are just following orders although some =
of them need to get a backbone and remember the oath they have taken and wh=
at their nation stands for.

Right now we have a situation where National Security concerns are trumping=
 everything and that is certainly not the basis for a free world.  I don't =
know about the rest of you, but I'd rather face the enemy than hide like a =
coward jumping at every shadow.  I grew up with terrorism and the cold war,=
 with the very distinct possibility of dying.  I rather run the risk of bee=
n blown to pieces, or shot, than support a stasi-like spy state that will p=
rotect me.  Throwing away freedom to safe-guard against possible threats is=
 no way to go through life, in the end, it means you have lost your nation.=
  It means you did the enemy's work, which is by any measure a form treason.

Anyway, we have a simple solution to this global view and hidden services. =
 We just implement a distributed hosting solution within the Tor system and=
 end-to-end visibility is gone.

Regards,

Mark McCarron

> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 11:19:00 -0300
> From: juan.g71@gmail.com
> To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
> Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Illegal Activity As A Metric of Tor Security and =
Anonymity
> =

> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 13:48:27 -0700
> coderman <coderman@gmail.com> wrote:
> =

> > On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >...
> > >         And so we have amusing tor lackeys like =A8coderman=A8
> > >         parroting propaganda that not even the tor developers
> > >         themselves believe.
> > =

> > this is amusing! explain to me where i've said Tor resists traffic
> > analysis? :)
> =

> 	As I already mentioned,  you and others talk as if that were the
> 	case. As a matter of fact you are doing it again in this =

> 	(previous) message of yours.
> =

> > =

> > my point is that Tor is harder than the software you're using over it.
> =

> 	That is just a generality, a half truth, and not relevant in
> 	this context.  It is an excuse and a distraction.
> =

> =

> > web browsers, instant messaging clients, web services and poorly
> > implemented applications.
> > =

> > why do you need traffic analysis when trivial attacks work just as
> > well?
> =

> 	I dont need traffic analysis, I am not a government nazi. =

> =

> 	However,  government nazis do need traffic analysis to
> 	deal with people who correctly configure their servers.
> =

> 	It shouldnt be necessary for me to point out such obvious
> 	fact? =

> =

> 	Also, if attacks against  servers are =B4easy=B4,
> 	why did it take years for the government  to get freedom
> 	hosting? =

> =

> > =

> > =

> > =

> > >         So, how did the american gestapo get freedom hosting and
> > > silk road? Traffic analysis.
> > =

> > citation needed.  all signs point to insider threat (you know, rats)
> =

> =

> 	Citation needed? What kind of citation? I make my case based on
> 	basic, correct reasoning and public information. And you have
> 	nothing to counter it. =

> =

> 	And what are *you* doing? Are you indeed parroting the
> 	official story? Are you that =B4naive=B4? =

> =

> 	> all signs point to insider threat (you know, rats)
> =

> 	So, wheres **your** evidence for that parallel story? =

> =

> =

> > =

> > =

> > =

> > >         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction
> > =

> > we could have a long discussion on this subject, but not apropos to
> > this list...
> =

> 	What? You dont want to discuss how fuckingly corrupt the US
> 	government is in a list that belongs to the US government? =

> =

> 	You dont want to discuss the fact that the american =B4justice=B4
> 	system is based on blatant lies and that they even have a
> 	procedure in place to manage those blatant lies?
> =

> 	tsk tsk tsk =

> 	=

> 	And, au contraire, the discussion is 100% a propos this mailing
> 	list. =

> =

> 	See, you are basing your baseless defence of Tor (US
> 	military project)  on lies from the US government, lies which in
> 	turn can be traced to so called =A8parallel contstruction=A8.
> =

> 	=

> > =

> > =

> > best regards,
> > =

> > =

> > =

> > TL;DR:  Tor is not the weak spot in your privacy. =

> =

> =

> 	Baseless assertion.
> =

> =

> > OPSEC, application
> > attack surface, pervasive information insecurity - these are all going
> > to betray you before some fundamental vulnerability in Tor protocol.
> =

> =

> 	False, baseless assertion. Notice again  how you fail to
> 	specify the =B4threat model=B4, to use your military jargon.
> =

> 	You are not explicitly saying that tor resists traffic
> 	analysis, but you are saying something that amounts to the same
> 	thing - that traffic analysis doesnt matter.
> =

> =

> =

> =

> J.
> =

> -- =

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