Delivery-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 18:57:02 -0400
Return-Path: <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on moria.seul.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,
	DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RP_MATCHES_RCVD,T_DKIM_INVALID
	autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Original-To: archiver@seul.org
Delivered-To: archiver@seul.org
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (eugeni.torproject.org [38.229.72.13])
	(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by khazad-dum.seul.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEC151E0C81
	for <archiver@seul.org>; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 18:57:00 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF1722F740;
	Wed, 25 Jun 2014 22:56:54 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 934EA2F6AB
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 22:53:52 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at eugeni.torproject.org
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (eugeni.torproject.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id onAM6pmL84bf for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>;
 Wed, 25 Jun 2014 22:53:52 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-qc0-x22e.google.com (mail-qc0-x22e.google.com
 [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22e])
 (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits))
 (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com",
 Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (not verified))
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D4792F545
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 22:53:52 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-qc0-f174.google.com with SMTP id x13so2391979qcv.33
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 15:53:50 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
 h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
 :content-type; bh=1cf64dkTQkbC/Wrz+/gnhrli6rEuB5N3VH2IsRcos0U=;
 b=nlvyuEMm1gHZU94tHkn+tzg7+QJ8Fo+BZ8E1WJ6hotlf/iSCjspiZ2d3AzXwGIeqyT
 r9MpZ3aNNUo/jiba5W7FP7+iVz3gsb7HospfzKpxRLsJf6PyShV8L32fUMapY6Y5Nf2A
 8Se+lllKBv90mIRklwpdng1Pa/sZf3oJ97aemrG22BPQDvIOruAvqujwaGqEiaEpPQhI
 VIG6urTEyxc5uknR3MDTP9Mz7FiBlw8ULuNMbCjhSSEWY4y6J4RzMPgigskW7XUNPe5f
 +NCVFAwS8K3F4UMEGNZJ22nghf0vQ+SJYk13cpdeagF988DwGJdecl0IsM2MgzYh6fD+
 QGsQ==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.224.168.13 with SMTP id s13mr15812511qay.14.1403736830103;
 Wed, 25 Jun 2014 15:53:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.96.179.232 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 15:53:50 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <DUB121-W401DDF2EB0B4F36357ADA2C8190@phx.gbl>
References: <DUB121-W32E5B8525EB5756FB0DD73C8190@phx.gbl>
 <53AB3C75.4020105@gmx.com>
 <DUB121-W401DDF2EB0B4F36357ADA2C8190@phx.gbl>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 15:53:50 -0700
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RQZ3fA_+dgbs7U-qsJ__fgZfpHj8hxV=RD5KoonaqbBw@mail.gmail.com>
From: coderman <coderman@gmail.com>
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Illegal Activity As A Metric of Tor Security and
	Anonymity
X-BeenThere: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
List-Id: "all discussion about theory, design,
 and development of Onion Routing" <tor-talk.lists.torproject.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/>
List-Post: <mailto:tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Errors-To: tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org
Sender: "tor-talk" <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Mark McCarron <mark.mccarron@live.co.uk> wrote:
> Basically, I keep a track of site numbers year-on-year, site availability from 3rd party monitoring and read comments on forums and chat.

from this you draw too many unsupported conclusions.



> Whilst it may be good in some sense, it states that Tor is failing in its primary task of promoting freedom through anonymity.

freedom to communicate is very different from freedom of consequences
for your actions.  if you are posting material incriminating yourself
harming another, do you think the evidence is solely digital and
ephemeral?

"good old fashioned police work" identifies criminals harming others
effectively, and outside the scope of "private network communication".

the markets you allude to, drug trade and sex crimes, perhaps a less
appropriate measure - consider cyber crime where information trade
alone is the offense, and you've got a better metric for the privacy
protections of illicit infotrade across digital networks.

last but not least, to the extent that these sites distributing
deplorable content (rape of earth humans) represented a failure in
enforcement, it seems logical that a vigilante response would develop.
these may have significant impact on availability, yet say more about
the general insecurity of software systems and digital networks more
than anything specific about Tor's privacy protections.




>  In fact, it would seem that Tor is having the opposite effect, silencing everyone through fear...
> So, the question remains, what is wrong with the Anonymity and Security of Tor?

flawed assumptions, invalid premises. i disagree entirely!


best regards,
-- 
tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk

