Delivery-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 15:11:29 -0400
Return-Path: <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on moria.seul.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,
	RP_MATCHES_RCVD,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Original-To: archiver@seul.org
Delivered-To: archiver@seul.org
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (eugeni.torproject.org [38.229.72.13])
	(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by moria.seul.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 046091E0D1B
	for <archiver@seul.org>; Sun, 15 Jun 2014 15:11:27 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 185E82FE02;
	Sun, 15 Jun 2014 19:11:26 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E38452F856
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Sun, 15 Jun 2014 19:08:33 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at eugeni.torproject.org
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (eugeni.torproject.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id SLbSqCpYZ90L for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>;
 Sun, 15 Jun 2014 19:08:33 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129])
 (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
 (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Gandi Standard SSL CA" (not verified))
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C292E2F840
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Sun, 15 Jun 2014 19:08:33 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from fulvetta.riseup.net (fulvetta-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.75])
 (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
 (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Gandi Standard SSL CA" (not verified))
 by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9AEF50BF2
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Sun, 15 Jun 2014 12:08:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 (Authenticated sender: mirimir@fulvetta.riseup.net)
 with ESMTPSA id 86F7227B
Message-ID: <539DEF15.7090003@riseup.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 13:08:05 -0600
From: Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
 rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
References: <539BCD4A.1020805@torproject.is> <539BF7EF.3050806@googlemail.com>
 <539D15C7.4030702@torproject.is> <539DC3B5.3070903@gmx.com>
In-Reply-To: <539DC3B5.3070903@gmx.com>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mx1
X-Virus-Status: Clean
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Non-free country law preventing Tor from getting
	donations
X-BeenThere: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
List-Id: "all discussion about theory, design,
 and development of Onion Routing" <tor-talk.lists.torproject.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/>
List-Post: <mailto:tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Errors-To: tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org
Sender: "tor-talk" <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>

On 06/15/2014 10:03 AM, Joe Btfsplk wrote:
> 
> On 6/14/2014 10:40 PM, Andrew Lewman wrote:
>> On 06/14/2014 03:21 AM, Sebastian G. <bastik.tor> wrote:
>>> That has to be a violation of your rights.
>> It's the law in the USA. Regardless of how one feels about it, it's
>> currently against the law.
>>
>> The citizen resided in a country as listed as a State Sponsor of
>> Terrorism, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Sponsors_of_Terrorism
>>
>> According to the advice we received, "financial transaction" is defined
>> broadly to encompass many things, possibly including
>> bitcoins/dogecoins/and other coins.
>>
>> There are many battles Tor can fight, this is not one of them.
>>
> I wouldn't expect any one or small group to just jump in & defy the
> current interpretation of embargo laws - without serious research &
> consideration.

I totally agree, there's no reason to defy anything, unless creating a
test case for litigation is the goal.

<SNIP>

> Where such a transaction would not benefit the country,  or even the
> private donor, in any financial, military, political manner, etc.; only
> promoting access to free speech & information, which in all likely hood,
> could lead to citizens *forcing change* on the very policies / actions,
> that lead to the country being embargoed in the first place.
> 
> Forbiding this specific transaction, given the specific circumstances,
> would seem to be the definition of cutting off one's nose to spite their
> face.

The law is the law, and (acting openly) the choices are compliance, or
noncompliance on principle. But see above.

> In the world & US history, there are 1000's of cases where something was
> once entrenched as being illegal, but became legal, often because
> someone stood up & fought to change it.

Indeed!

Exemptions for victims and freedom fighters from designations as "State
Sponsor of Terrorism" would make sense. After all, the US has itself
supported freedom fighters in Iran, during the 2009-2010 election.

> If Torproject ending it's close ties w/ U.S. military funding (by some
> means) isn't important for it's reputation & appearance to the broader
> internet community, I'm not sure what is.

As long as funding doesn't come with strings, there's no problem with
accepting it.

As I see this case, the prospective donor was foolish to contact the Tor
Project directly, apparently with no effective anonymity. And whoever
publicized this screwup was also foolish. After explaining the situation
to said prospective donor, the Tor Project should have discretely
mentioned the donor's intent and contact information through suitable
channels. And then they should have forgotten about it all.

As I said, the less said, the better. But maybe I was too enigmatic ;)
-- 
tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk

