Delivery-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 00:12:11 -0400
Return-Path: <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on moria.seul.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
	RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RP_MATCHES_RCVD,T_DKIM_INVALID,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY
	autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Original-To: archiver@seul.org
Delivered-To: archiver@seul.org
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (eugeni.torproject.org [38.229.72.13])
	(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by khazad-dum.seul.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2EC71E0A74
	for <archiver@seul.org>; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 00:12:09 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2A3A2FF5C;
	Sat, 26 Jul 2014 04:12:07 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F17C730116
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 03:57:51 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at eugeni.torproject.org
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (eugeni.torproject.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id 8QExN3qWjib4 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>;
 Sat, 26 Jul 2014 03:57:51 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129])
 (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
 (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Gandi Standard SSL CA" (not verified))
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BDDF22F21F
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 03:57:51 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from fulvetta.riseup.net (fulvetta-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.75])
 (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
 (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Gandi Standard SSL CA" (not verified))
 by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C4475650C
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 20:57:48 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak;
 t=1406347068; bh=OBYbS3bAHPlvsnTIQEiqPB2p5h8cCWp7WOY8t6M1pYY=;
 h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From;
 b=X0E7gjrQP8AoB7i51XDGGE06S4Xo0xtLRpe5qBNvcJz9pWrJa7IZgrF9Wv/WkGQQ1
 QKU6XlhpT6oucDS9+4PwiGNWUKYiXJAlHMx5DG9Ou804+8tNSUlLxJynrJ2bMAHTOO
 KNKsJzPoYPng4z4eY1pKq1mzA3eFOhIEybuadZYQ=
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 (Authenticated sender: mirimir@fulvetta.riseup.net)
 with ESMTPSA id 87A5F187
Message-ID: <53D32738.1030404@riseup.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 21:57:44 -0600
From: Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
 rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
References: <53D16B7A.6000100@cpunk.us> <20140724203626.GS7408@moria.seul.org>
 <53D177B8.4010306@riseup.net> <20140725231953.GR7899@patternsinthevoid.net>
 <20140726003827.GT7899@patternsinthevoid.net>
In-Reply-To: <20140726003827.GT7899@patternsinthevoid.net>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mx1
X-Virus-Status: Clean
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Why does requesting for bridges by email require a
 Yahoo or Gmail address?
X-BeenThere: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
List-Id: "all discussion about theory, design,
 and development of Onion Routing" <tor-talk.lists.torproject.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/>
List-Post: <mailto:tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Errors-To: tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org
Sender: "tor-talk" <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>

On 07/25/2014 06:38 PM, isis wrote:
> isis transcribed 4.9K bytes:
>> Mirimir transcribed 1.5K bytes:
>>> On 07/24/2014 02:36 PM, Roger Dingledine wrote:
>>>> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 03:24:26PM -0500, Cypher wrote:
>>>>> In light of the last year of disclosures by Edward Snowden, why is Tor
>>>>> requiring that I establish an account with an email provider that is
>>>>> completely out of my control and has a general history of complying with
>>>>> law enforcement data requests? Why those two providers specically?
>>>>
>>>> Because we need an adequately popular provider that makes it hard to
>>>> generate lots of addresses. Otherwise an attacker could make millions
>>>> of addresses and "be" millions of different people asking for bridges.
>>>>
>>>> https://svn.torproject.org/svn/projects/design-paper/blocking.html#tth_sEc7.4
>>>
>>> That totally makes sense.
>>>
>>>> (Also, it recently became clear that it would be useful for people to
>>>> access this provider via https, rather than http, so a network adversary
>>>> can't just sniff the bridge addresses off the Internet when the user
>>>> reads her mail. And it would also be nice to not use providers that turn
>>>> their entire email databases over to the adversary, even unwittingly.
>>>> Lots of adversaries and lots of goals to manage at once here.)
>>>>
>>>> --Roger
>>>
>>> Right, and with HTTPS, users' ISPs (and their friends) can't even see
>>> that bridges are being provided. Does the bridge database talk directly
>>> with Google and Yahoo mail servers, to prevent possible XKeyScore snooping?
>>
>> In addition to requiring that an email provider enforce some base difficulty
>> level for obtaining new accounts, BridgeDB requires that a provider must have:
>>
>>  1) TLS enabled for both their SMTP and webmail/IMAP/POP interfaces. Using TLS
>>     when sending and receiving to/from the provider from BridgeDB is
>>     required. [0]
>>  2) Verifiable DKIM signatures on the user's outgoing emails. 
>>
>> I've long been in favour of removing Yahoo from the accepted providers. [1]
>> However, we've decided not to do that for the sake of people who have already
>> followed BridgeDB's instructions and obtained Yahoo email addresses, and we've
>> opted for a different solution instead. [2]
>>
>> I'm also strongly in favour of adding Riseup! to the list of acceptable
>> providers, as I believe that their account security, commitment to their
>> users, unwillingness to hand over logs, and difficulty of account creation to
>> be orders of magnitude better than any other email provider out there. I'm
>> currently working with the Riseup! birds to get (2) enabled so that we can do
>> this. [3]
>>
>> [0]: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/10989
>> [1]: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/11140
>> [2]: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/11330
>> [3]: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/11139
> 
> 
> And... obviously, five minutes after I sent that email, I realised that
> Riseup!'s DKIM signature now checks out fine, meaning that you all should now
> be able to email BridgeDB from a riseup.net email address to receive
> bridges. [0]

That's very cool!

> Thank the Riseup! birds for fixing this (and for being all around a great
> bunch of people with everything they do). <3

Yes, I love them too :)

> [0]: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/11139#comment:15
> 
> 
> 
-- 
tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk

