Delivery-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 19:12:39 -0400
Return-Path: <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on moria.seul.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
	RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RP_MATCHES_RCVD,T_DKIM_INVALID,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY
	autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Original-To: archiver@seul.org
Delivered-To: archiver@seul.org
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (eugeni.torproject.org [38.229.72.13])
	(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by khazad-dum.seul.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA3D81E0A85
	for <archiver@seul.org>; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 19:12:37 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B9062F440;
	Thu, 24 Jul 2014 23:12:32 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16C892E73A
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 23:06:05 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at eugeni.torproject.org
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (eugeni.torproject.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id A35poZZfWbns for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>;
 Thu, 24 Jul 2014 23:06:05 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129])
 (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
 (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Gandi Standard SSL CA" (not verified))
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E35332E468
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 23:06:04 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from fulvetta.riseup.net (fulvetta-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.75])
 (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
 (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Gandi Standard SSL CA" (not verified))
 by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33C0255EFE
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 16:06:01 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak;
 t=1406243161; bh=qIMa31uqglgCEyg8MAMYhz4lRA3txfJk1alNeOApZEc=;
 h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From;
 b=fmfNoOFeLwME3tAjfQp5Tv0toXZIgEiLROkW7gFs9zURoqsIpOV2K2S8wI4rFoF+2
 v5WWqWo6+Uxt53ijZpCoNy0t9wJiVoo+5X0IK1BnORzn+eSICPxDUkfZbeMjvVZn3w
 w9pX7XJaAtpcgKw2FWb7N27lpswuHu4XjmmYCYvI=
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 (Authenticated sender: adrelanos@fulvetta.riseup.net)
 with ESMTPSA id D0B3D1D9
Message-ID: <53D19151.7060208@riseup.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 23:05:53 +0000
From: Patrick Schleizer <adrelanos@riseup.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
References: <53D16B7A.6000100@cpunk.us>
In-Reply-To: <53D16B7A.6000100@cpunk.us>
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mx1
X-Virus-Status: Clean
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Why does requesting for bridges by email require a
 Yahoo or Gmail address?
X-BeenThere: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
List-Id: "all discussion about theory, design,
 and development of Onion Routing" <tor-talk.lists.torproject.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/>
List-Post: <mailto:tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Errors-To: tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org
Sender: "tor-talk" <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>

Cypher:
> With the recent discussion about what your ISP can see when you use Tor,
> I ended up on the Tor Bridges page. On that page is the following statement:
> 
> "I need an alternative way of getting bridges!
> 
> Another way to get bridges is to send an email to
> bridges@torproject.org. Please note that you must send the email using
> an address from one of the following email providers: Gmail or Yahoo."
> 
> In light of the last year of disclosures by Edward Snowden, why is Tor
> requiring that I establish an account with an email provider that is
> completely out of my control and has a general history of complying with
> law enforcement data requests? Why those two providers specically?
> 
> Note to conspiracy theorists: I am NOT intimating that Tor is in cahoots
> with the government in any way and that's why they're requiring Yahoo
> and Gmail so don't bother going there.
> 
> Can anyone shed some light on this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Cypher
> 

Because it's about different threat models and use cases.

Usually bridges are used by countries that are "unfriendly" with US -
for example China. US services gmail / yahoo won't cooperate with China.
That may or may not be true, but for the use case at hand, that is
simple censorship circumvention it works.

On the other hand, your use case is interpreted by me as "I live in some
western country (ex: US), recently read the news, that using the public
Tor network will mark you as extremist in NSA database. Bad. Bridges
hide Tor, no? So isn't it an oxymoron to ask for gmail / yahoo accounts
then?" - Oxymoron on first sight, but there is none.

Using private and obfuscated bridges alone doesn't provide strong
guarantees of hiding the fact you are using Tor from your ISP. Quote [1]
[2] Jacob Appelbaum:

> Some pluggable transports may seek to obfuscate traffic or to morph
it. However, they do not claim to hide that you are using Tor in all
cases but rather in very specific cases. An example threat model
includes a DPI device with limited time to make a classification choice
- so the hiding is very specific to functionality and generally does not
take into account endless data retention with retroactive policing.

Cheers,
Patrick

[1] https://mailman.boum.org/pipermail/tails-dev/2013-April/002950.html
[2] http://www.webcitation.org/6G67ltL45

-- 
tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk

