Delivery-Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2015 02:36:27 -0500
Return-Path: <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on moria.seul.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
	RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RP_MATCHES_RCVD,T_DKIM_INVALID,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY,
	URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Original-To: archiver@seul.org
Delivered-To: archiver@seul.org
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (eugeni.torproject.org [38.229.72.13])
	(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by khazad-dum.seul.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC36D1E08B8
	for <archiver@seul.org>; Sun,  1 Feb 2015 02:36:25 -0500 (EST)
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07DB732D29;
	Sun,  1 Feb 2015 07:36:22 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CCAB32CF1
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Sun,  1 Feb 2015 07:36:18 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at 
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (eugeni.torproject.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id yuCoAOH0GLPt for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>;
 Sun,  1 Feb 2015 07:36:18 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129])
 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
 (Client CN "*.riseup.net",
 Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified))
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 480F03257C
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Sun,  1 Feb 2015 07:36:18 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from berryeater.riseup.net (berryeater-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.120])
 (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
 (Client CN "*.riseup.net",
 Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK))
 by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C15841405
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Sun,  1 Feb 2015 07:36:15 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak;
 t=1422776175; bh=Hedd5WT1GR1LLYjZu4XCWFs4BP3Z4zBp6wpHPSagVUc=;
 h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From;
 b=XiQLUD+/2j1edS9t5FuAI8QFy9oRawtcHmueH9XcvYjzRgrxD5FwbcdfxvVW0TH9/
 HCnGMXJqc6VBHDEDXEig5ZlGdxZtcqq60mbnozO5hdvDl28KnxVOfucVO+Wm8vM4dW
 IQgK+FvRGNPWId8xRQHKNRMInZGjXbf+pT23XSOw=
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 (Authenticated sender: mirimir) with ESMTPSA id CCEF74006A
Message-ID: <54CDD77E.6010700@riseup.net>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2015 00:36:30 -0700
From: Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
 rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
References: <54CB577A.9000100@riseup.net> <54CD1B02.70304@whonix.org>
 <54CD85A8.6080601@riseup.net> <op.xtc9exdbbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
In-Reply-To: <op.xtc9exdbbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.5 at mx1
X-Virus-Status: Clean
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Tor -> VPN  Clarification
X-BeenThere: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
List-Id: "all discussion about theory, design,
 and development of Onion Routing" <tor-talk.lists.torproject.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/>
List-Post: <mailto:tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Errors-To: tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org
Sender: "tor-talk" <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>

On 01/31/2015 11:53 PM, Seth wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Jan 2015 17:47:20 -0800, Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:

<SNIP>

> I didn't make the claim, I just linked to it. If you want to
> challenge the claim, best take it up with the person making it.

Hey, no problem. But when I see misinformation, I say something.

> I think he makes a good point in this slide however.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> * VPNs provides _privacy_
> 
> * TOR provides _anonymity_
> 
> * Confuse the two at your peril

Those are uncontroversial statements. But they don't speak to the claim
that getting your anonymity more privately makes it less anonymous.
-- 
tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk

