Delivery-Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 16:11:36 -0400
Return-Path: <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on moria.seul.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,
	DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RP_MATCHES_RCVD,T_DKIM_INVALID
	autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Original-To: archiver@seul.org
Delivered-To: archiver@seul.org
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (eugeni.torproject.org [38.229.72.13])
	(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by khazad-dum.seul.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 646E01E0E35;
	Fri, 15 Aug 2014 16:11:34 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C41EF30BCA;
	Fri, 15 Aug 2014 20:11:30 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06BD530A95
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Fri, 15 Aug 2014 20:11:28 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at eugeni.torproject.org
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (eugeni.torproject.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id a4YncAxbg4yW for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>;
 Fri, 15 Aug 2014 20:11:27 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-wi0-x233.google.com (mail-wi0-x233.google.com
 [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::233])
 (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits))
 (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com",
 Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (not verified))
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B12CE2F614
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Fri, 15 Aug 2014 20:11:27 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-wi0-f179.google.com with SMTP id f8so1273434wiw.6
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Fri, 15 Aug 2014 13:11:24 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
 h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references
 :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
 bh=0nxnno28fcwlBunMn962IEpsAcRAzGpwRAvQmkTqMkY=;
 b=qSt0GoR2czzo56IYeDt1Q7nOPzfGZl58pM29dQqGQV1pouvY2HaEbfpQD8394hyO/i
 n8LOLqkkG9SGjLxantnVr6Z/KvPXZYvtwIL2FDxBvGHeffrAKeMjNGBJVyMZzG+xK8yj
 1BtaQOeNc5yRFYCrb10wKGtaOEX7LzB++UgNXygZfB1TeLNK8NGKumpwWg9NEn6q+zBx
 xvlk0KiY3/B0Ezpf7NJiBwEshHOBHFihaySW1ayZ7A7xeAfgd7NO+Rd5rigOSQ03vVjf
 Rj+WdVyxPLgbY0EG5Ap9b0sefn9FYtTFbOKp2S4IE+pgPh6+6wITobB/Kkaeh/1+f+pJ
 cMvg==
X-Received: by 10.194.121.6 with SMTP id lg6mr15213271wjb.116.1408133484111;
 Fri, 15 Aug 2014 13:11:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.11] (ANice-652-1-361-109.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr.
 [83.201.196.109])
 by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ev18sm2943961wid.1.2014.08.15.13.11.22
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>
 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
 Fri, 15 Aug 2014 13:11:23 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <53EE696F.2090100@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 22:11:27 +0200
From: Aymeric Vitte <vitteaymeric@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3;
 rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
References: <4dbf80e1a3ae8b182a15ea2af6fa10dc@openmailbox.org>
 <CAKkunMats8JoVc8wqYrMtWE4f0gTA7RVVWirhuJz6t9sA5dDQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53EBDEF5.7040804@gmail.com>
 <CAKkunMYRO-R_bs3MtOydCkZ9dJ0SmgSMT8-xVt-wCeuu22oniQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <53ED3CA8.8030705@gmail.com> <53ED43D8.4040302@riseup.net>
In-Reply-To: <53ED43D8.4040302@riseup.net>
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Wired Story on Uncovering Users of Hidden Services.
X-BeenThere: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
List-Id: "all discussion about theory, design,
 and development of Onion Routing" <tor-talk.lists.torproject.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/>
List-Post: <mailto:tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
Errors-To: tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org
Sender: "tor-talk" <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>

Definitely yes, that's a perfect summary of the situation, =

unfortunately, despite of Tor devs efforts, browsing the web is too =

dangerous but the Tor browser can provide you a relative anonymity, if =

you "don't do stupid stuff" indeed.

Regards,

Le 15/08/2014 01:18, Mirimir a =E9crit :
> On 08/14/2014 04:48 PM, Aymeric Vitte wrote:
>> I am "defensive" because you seem to make a general case of something
>> that can only happen in case of browser's/OS bug, and conveying to Tor
>> users that they should not use js is a non sense, you make believe them
>> that intrinsically js can easily leak their ip and/or mac addresses,
>> which is wrong, this can happen under extraordinary circumstances that
>> have nothing to do with js, here a windows/ff bug, which could have been
>> a css attack or whatever.
>>
>> Regards,
> This was indeed an extraordinary circumstance. And it is misleading to
> focus on the importance of blocking Javascript. It's also evidence for
> using the latest Tor browser release, avoiding Windows, etc.
>
> However, I do see a "told you so" here. It's foolish to think that
> simply using the Tor browser is adequate protection for doing stuff
> where there are serious consequences. Maybe the the comment "Everything
> you need to safely browse the Internet. This package requires no
> installation. Just extract it and run." on the download page needs a
> "don't do stupid stuff" warning. Also, maybe the "Want Tor to really
> work?" section needs to reiterate the "don't rely on Tor for strong
> anonymity" warning. Maybe even something about firewall rules. Yes?
>
>> Le 14/08/2014 11:06, Anders Andersson a =E9crit :
>>> On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Aymeric Vitte
>>> <vitteaymeric@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>     As
>>>>> someone who argues against using javascript in any context, I can only
>>>>> say "told you so", but that doesn't really help anyone. :)
>>>> No and you are wrong
>>>   From
>>> https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-announce/2013-August/000089.=
html
>>>
>>> "An attack that exploits a Firefox vulnerability in JavaScript has
>>> been observed in the wild."
>>> People who didn't allow javascript were safe.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Because they managed to get in to the client browser, they could learn
>>>>> the real IP address and MAC address
>>>> and the color of your shirt
>>> Why are you so defensive? Is it your code they broke? They could learn
>>> the color of my shirt if the browser user has access to a webcam,
>>> which is not uncommon. This is however highly irrelevant.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> , they didn't learn this through
>>>>> Tor.
>>>> Are you serious in your answer?
>>> Very much so. If you don't believe me, then maybe you'll believe these
>>> sources:
>>>
>>> https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-announce/2013-August/000089.=
html
>>>
>>> https://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/2013/mfsa2013-53.html
>>>
>>> Nothing was exploited through Tor. In fact, they couldn't find out who
>>> was using the server *because* people used Tor. So they had to resort
>>> to javascript exploits.

-- =

Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms

-- =

tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk

