Delivery-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 11:14:34 -0400
Return-Path: <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on moria.seul.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
	LOTS_OF_MONEY,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,T_DKIM_INVALID,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD,
	UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Original-To: archiver@seul.org
Delivered-To: archiver@seul.org
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (eugeni.torproject.org [38.229.72.13])
	(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by khazad-dum.seul.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 307A71E01A6
	for <archiver@seul.org>; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 11:14:32 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28D2C332AF;
	Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:14:29 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61CB332BF3
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:14:25 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at 
Received: from eugeni.torproject.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (eugeni.torproject.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id Leoo3cTutVfA for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>;
 Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:14:25 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129])
 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
 (Client CN "*.riseup.net",
 Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified))
 by eugeni.torproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CE5927DF9
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:14:25 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from plantcutter.riseup.net (plantcutter-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.121])
 (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
 (Client CN "*.riseup.net",
 Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK))
 by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8067540FB1
 for <tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 08:14:22 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak;
 t=1430406862; bh=gJtt25rDQWKFaeqpMNouFs4+OfR+7d0+iKkbrVu4EhM=;
 h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From;
 b=QOdS/R31NXU6TEYk67CXC0qcMebQ3dxVItelp8plmu1syp12l4q7gddc1iCQ+ObZh
 1INEYtftB0BHNf58p2JEDnfzSbyzegFcTf/W96b7M+tqwQROXiPSK40Eeb78whdR7c
 Bvqr8QxZavM6bulYb/E/hEGvQ1TJDEZaCfCrQvTw=
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 (Authenticated sender: when2plus2is5) with ESMTPSA id F10A7203FC
Message-ID: <554246CB.3000501@riseup.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:14:19 +0000
From: Speak Freely <when2plus2is5@riseup.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
References: <CAHvMVPQtZ3tHWTAMyrsbTZoK_sEUWXf0cKULe==P2aD16MC+ww@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAHvMVPQtZ3tHWTAMyrsbTZoK_sEUWXf0cKULe==P2aD16MC+ww@mail.gmail.com>
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.6 at mx1
X-Virus-Status: Clean
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Full integration with bitcoin (suggestion / feature
 request)
X-BeenThere: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
List-Id: "all discussion about theory, design,
 and development of Onion Routing" <tor-talk.lists.torproject.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/>
List-Post: <mailto:tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk>, 
 <mailto:tor-talk-request@lists.torproject.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Errors-To: tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org
Sender: "tor-talk" <tor-talk-bounces@lists.torproject.org>

There are tons of problems with the suggestion, IMMHO.

Good read:
https://blog.torproject.org/category/tags/bitcoin

I have very strong reservations about anyone suggesting internet fast
lanes, or pay to play lanes.

I run my relays for everyone, equally. If someone is poor, that doesn't
mean they are any less important. For the purposes of Tor, chances are
poor people match more closely to Tor's project goals. Based entirely on
nothing but a guess, I would expect a poor person to be more willing, or
more inclined to be a whistle blower, or more interested in political
change, or more dedicated to social improvement, over a debutante
dilettante. A very well off white guy in middle America suburbia has
nothing to lose provided the status quo remains. A very poor person has
nothing to gain from the status quo, so would tend to try to improve
themselves, and others.

It would also introduce fascinating attack vectors, as it would be
relatively easy to determine who the "poor" people are vs who the "rich"
people are, based simply on what a particular relay charges for it's
service. The reduced anonymity set would present interesting problems.

Assuming your numbers, at today's rate, 0.001BTC would be $0.23USD/MB
($0.28 for us Canadians).
$0.23/MB@100GB/day = $23,000/day
$0.23/MB@3TB(100GB*30)/month = $690,000/month
That's a disturbingly good ROI, considering the cost for the operator
would be anywhere between $3-15/month.
(For a rich person to download a 1GB file, it would cost them $230.)


Finally, attempting to monetize a system that is currently free as in
beer, would not necessarily bring out the best in people. Sure, some
operators would run their relays for free, but many wouldn't. When
certain people realize that they could monetize the relay, what's to
stop them from sniffing the data to make even more money?


BUT, what do I know. Read the blog, it's much better written than my
gibberish regarding this topic.



Matt
Speak Freely

-- 
tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk

